Chicago Camps

Aaron Irizarry at UX Camp Fall Home Edition 2020 (Video)

Leading Successfully, By Leading Ourselves

Aaron Irizarry opened UX Camp Fall 2020 with his keynote “Leading Successfully, By Leading Ourselves” Enjoy!

Aaron Irizarry

Head of Credit Solutions Design, Capital One

Aaron Irizarry, aka “Ron,” is the Head of Credit Solutions Design in Capital One’s Commercial Bank. Aaron is also the co-author of Discussing Design: Improving Communication and Collaboration through Critique. More importantly, Aaron loves connecting with people through food, is a lover of heavy metal, and a lifelong Dodgers fan.

​​​The following transcript very likely contains typographical errors. Please forgive any mistakes!

I would be happy to, and thank you so much, Russ, or even allow me to be a part of the event, especially after I bailed on you the first time there, we… Excited to be here. Friends, thank you so much for just coming to this event on a Saturday, there’s so much great content happening today is something I wanna unpack a little bit with you today, is this idea of how we choose to show up ourselves, impacts our ability to lead our teams, I am the Head of Credit solutions design at Capital One. I also lead our business to business design system team as well, and in that leadership, I’ve learned a lot through successes and failures about how I show up and how that impacts my ability to successfully set up my team to build a Thebes work. And as I really thought about what it meant, and someone asked me the other day, What is my mantra or the thing that I think most about with leadership, and this quote is always stuck with me, that from Simon Sinek and one of his books called leaders, he last… And leadership is not about being in-charge…

Leadership is about taking care of those in your charge. And as I think about this, this really changed my approach to leadership, it’s not so much me white knocking and dragging everybody along towards success, it’s me standing alongside and behind them and pushing them and supporting them and guiding them along in the work that we do, and times, yes, I do have to step out in front, but it’s not about that being in charge, it’s not just about managing, it’s about leading a

Alnwick a little bit. SaaS, some of the things that I’ve learned in my journey that have helped me as I strive to continue to grow and be a successful leader to my team, the first thing I wanna talk about is our EQ, our emotional intelligence, and this gets talked about quite a bit, but for me, it’s really important that I am an emotionally intelligent leader, that I am looking around and I’m gauging how the team is doing, how they’re feeling, and making sure that I’m aware of that so that guys, my interactions with them.

And I do this by building self-awareness within myself, but this is ensuring that I’m listening to feedback from my team, I’m knowing that the way I carry myself is gonna impact how other people show up, maybe in a meeting or in their work, and knowing that even in a day where I’m just not in a good mood that that can have a negative impact on my team, and we all have those days, and that’s understood and okay, but I just need to be mindful of that as a leader and my emotions and how I choose to communicate, how I choose to respond in certain moments, I need to be self-aware of those things so that I can self-govern myself, and I ensure that I’m showing up in the right way, and that self-governing, not me, knowing that in the moment I’m gonna be triggered by something, it’s our human nature when we’re in a conversation in a meeting or even maybe a difficult conversation with a direct report or a partner, that how I respond, people take note of that.

And so it’s important for me to be able to regulate myself, I’m gonna wanna snap to judgment and decision-making, or I’m gonna wanna chip back at someone if I feel like they’re coming at me about something that’s just natural. So I need to get into a mindset and a practice of slowing down and thinking before I act, processing what I’m hearing, before I am just so quick to respond to things, because even if it’s not… He said to someone, someone is watching.

So if I’m talking with one direct report or a partner or a group of people in a meeting, you know, only talking to one person, others see that, they see how I respond, they see how I respond in a pressure, they see how I respond to one challenge ’cause an respond when things go well. So it’s important for me to understand and practice this idea of self-regulation as a leader, and I think motivation plays into this as well, when I’m thinking about my emotional intelligence and what that really means. It’s how I show up. Why am I doing the work I’m doing? And there’s days, I don’t have it right, there’s days when I get up and I’m dragging myself to zoom right now. And that just happens sometimes. Right, but

If I show that I have the ability to pursue my goals for myself, for my team members, for our team at large, for our organization, with a level of energy and persistence and passion that can be contagious for my team, that helps them when they have the days where they don’t wanna show up and they’re struggling.

So if I can remember why I’m doing the things that I’m doing, now

I keep certain things around me, I’ve had this stick for mangled sticking up for the longest time that says Mom a mentality because my favorite athlete was CO for the long time was to me, Bryan, and just watching the documentary A passed away, just reminded me of the craft and the passionate dedication papers work, and if I can show up even just most of the time, or even half of the time, with that, in my own personal life, when I show up to work, my team is gonna see that they’re gonna be inspired by that and they’re gonna be driven to… To show up as their best stuff as they come to work.

And empathy, this is so overused, it’s unfortunate when this happens within ours and other communities where we talk about a word a lot and it kinda loses its value, but man, if we can really think about… Not even focusing anymore on empathy for our users, that’s a given… Let’s change that and realize that if we can’t have empathy for our business partners, for the teams we lead, for the individuals where we work with, we really don’t have a lot of business touting that we need to have empathy for our end users because it starts in the work we’re doing and the empathy will show for them when we have the empathy for the people we work with it.

And so we really need to be aware and looking for the signs and the emotional make-up of other people, understanding how they are, seeing where they are in a certain day, and then making sure that guys, our response and how we interact with them.

And then social skills, and I wanna be very careful with this because I’m not talking about someone who’s maybe extroverted and can talk to people, and it may be kind of sales. It just has all those things, I’m more talking about understanding people and relationship building, even introverted people have the capability to see and understand how someone else is carrying themselves and made you find a common ground with them. But maybe they do it in a one-on-one conversation, or not so extroverted like others… So when I talk about social skills, it’s not so much about being out front or being the one that everybody seems to relate to because you can tell the jokes in the meeting or do these things and other things that people would consider social skills as much as really being able to connect with people, these are the things that make up our emotional quotient and help us start to have a solid foundation for how we show up as a leader, and that when we’ve done that, right? If I have that emotional intelligence, thriving, the way I show up, I’m in a better position to lead with vulnerability and transparency, and this can be really hard because vulnerability is not something that comes easy because we have to open ourselves up to others, being transparent is challenging as well, but I think vulnerability is a bit tougher and oftentimes vulnerability gets used in order to get vulnerability for other people, so it can be really tricky to lead with vulnerability in those spaces, and it’s really about knowing the right time in the right place.

And I think a lot of leadership just comes down to that as well as just knowing the how and the went to show up in a certain way. We’re not transparent with our teams, we wrote trust, even with our partners as well as we try to drive our work. One of the biggest things I’ve learned over time is when I’m not transparent, I encourage assumption-driven thinking, and assumptions aren’t always accurate, and we put people in a position to assume, so I’m not being transparent with something about my team that

Puts our in position to start thinking of what could possibly be going along.

So if I don’t talk about something or I’m not clear about budgets or what’s happening with the business, they can start to wonder like, Oh my gosh, hey, things are crazy right now in the world, and Aaron’s not being clear about what it’s hearing means I… Later for our team is safe or are we gonna… Are there gonna be layoffs? Well, they can just start to think so many things and make all these assumptions just because I’m not being clear and transparent with them, so I think transparency is really important, not just because I believe it’s just the right way to do it, but the effects of not being transparent can be really damaging for a team…

I think it’s also important to show our teams that we trust them enough to share our fears, concerns or setbacks with them, and this is challenging, ’cause in one sense, I’m like, Yes, I should do that. I should be able to share my failures with my team or things that I’m really concerned about, but that’s me trying to be vulnerable or transparent with them, there is the side of this though, where if I maybe share too many of my fears, I can create anxiety within that, and so I have to be careful on how would I share with them and the way I share it to… That I’m not creating additional anxiety for them, but if I am sharing a way, I’m building trust with them by being transparent, by being vulnerable or things that have not gone well, sometimes I’ve come out of meetings with leadership and partners, and I tell my leadership team like that I think I blew that one. I may not have communicated things, this is the way I wanted to… Or as effectively I wanted to, I go back to the drawing board on this. Or I bring my work to my team, I’m working on a big presentation for leadership right now, and I start with my leadership team and said, Hey, I wanna show this to tell me pools on this…

Tell me where I’m off, tell me more, I’m missing things. It’s important to be open and transparent with them and I share with them the things I’m concerned about in my messaging, so that they can then help me ensure that I’m fixing those gaps that might be what I wanna communicate. And I think this is really important too, is communicating openly with candor and cure collaboration, and it encourages a collaboration that’s red and trust, not a kind of like a forced collaboration, but a collaboration where people know that they can throw ideas out there, they can be more open and just engage because there is a safe space that’s been created by communicating openly with candor with that means I can be direct with them, I can challenge things from a position of trust, not from a position of opposition, and a… Usually when I talk about candor, I always add this note because the book Radical Candor has got so much praise and people are often talking about it, which is great because I think it’s something that we needed for a long time. The

Other side of that though is candor, that’s done from a position of just being harsh or being rude is not okay, that’s not how leaders should show up, that’s not being emotionally intelligent, that’s not considering our partners and our team members that were leading… That doesn’t generate trust. That generates fear, hesitation, and these are those things fear hesitation, lack of trust. Totally get in the way of collaboration. It becomes a forced, awkward, uncomfortable situation. If we’re thinking about how emotional intelligence is this foundation to work from, it definitely helps us lead with transparency, with vulnerability, but I think one of the things that does as well, because we’re being an ABC to intelligent, it means we’re paying attention to the people around us, so we can start to understand what communication styles resonate with different types of people, I often talk to my team about this in a sense, it’s almost like a sense of doing a bit of research with our partners or our team members. I watch my team, I see how they respond to different styles of communication, I see what they respond to positively, or if I communicate a certain thing and maybe it doesn’t land with them, or they seem kind of taken back by it, and I need to change that as a leader, I can’t approach the team or partner relationships, expecting that I can engage with every single person with the exact same approach, because people are vastly different, and so it’s important as a leader that I look for those differences, I look for the nuances.

So that I can be been prepared to engage people in a successful manner, especially when it comes to leading my team.

Their success, their growth is in my hands, and so for me to not to take the time to better understand them, I’m setting myself up and then for failure… One of the ways I do this as well as I try to make sure that I understand how people are impacted by what I say to them, or even oftentimes, more importantly, what I don’t say to them, ’cause even if I’m using words or not, I’m constantly community communicating to people, everything we do as a communication technique, how we stand… Communicate different things. If I stand like this, I seem disengaged. If I stand like this, maybe I seem a little more ready to engage, there’s just so many different things that communicate.

So I need to understand how I show up, impacts other people, there’s certain meetings with my team too, ’cause sometimes I choose not to attend because I know that my being there, maybe some of the more junior designers on the team or someone else will be… Think they have to show up in a different way because I’m there and as much as I try to tell them that’s not the case, that they can just totally be who they are, it’s just human nature that it will work that way. And so it’s really important to understand how the way we show up and communicate impact others, and then make the needed adjustments, and this is really important, taking the time to consider how different perspectives, situations and context affect understanding and perception. I

Think it’s really important to remember, especially for me, in my position at Capital One, we tend to be a consensus-driven culture, which means we tend to have a lot of meetings, and so sometimes I’m coming into a meeting and I’m still thinking about what happened in the last meeting, and I remind myself that every person in that meeting is coming from a different meeting, more like they are a conversation, so they could be coming in frustrated, still thinking about something else, or excited and wanting to actually maybe just get back to work and not have to sit into another meeting, and so it’s really important that I’m looking at what is shaping the engagement in that moment, I wanna make sure that when I’m communicating, I’ve taken into consideration how people are proceeding that based on what they’re experiencing in the moment, and

This sounds like a lot, I’m sure, because it is. But being a leader takes a lot of intention, it takes a lot of care, and the best I can do is start by devoting that intention and care to myself to ensure I can show up in the right way, and the more I do it, it becomes more normal for me, it becomes a little easier, it becomes a little more part of a routine and less force because I get the habit of showing up in certain ways and I still have to put effort into it, but I get into a practice of doing something in the same way I get into a practice of communicating a certain way or reminding myself not to interrupt people in meetings or those types of things. The more I do it, the better I get at it. Becoming just a part of how I show up. And it’s really important as we think about how the way we communicate impacts others, if ambiguity is present, that usually creates anxiety and folks… Because some people can be… They can look through and can cut through ambiguity and just get to work others don’t…

They might need a little more clarity to ensure that they’re heading down the right path, so it’s really important that if we’re going into a meeting where there’s a potential for an ambiguity or confusion to arise, to be really intentional about addressing that, especially for your team.

Especially to find a way to ensure they have a clear understanding coming out of a meeting, so I often will call on people directly and say, Hey, do you feel good about everything? Is there any questions you have or sometimes people don’t want to speak up and ask me a question, or made me feel like they don’t want people to think Maybe they’ve not understood something, so they don’t wanna ask, or maybe they just… They think they understand it, but sometimes they don’t.

And so being really intentional about planning, the planning to deal with ambiguity, confusion can really help team members get to their work more clearly and efficiently, and so this comes into that communication style with partners, with our teams that we lead. And just making sure that we’re addressing that. And then this is really important too, is like one of the most important things I’ve learned over the last few years is my relationship with the partner teams and leaders that my teams partner with in product and engineering delivery are equally as important as my relationship with my team, because how I work with my partners sets a tone for how their teams partner with my teams, and if I wanna drive things home that I think will be beneficial to my team, if I’m suggesting we maybe adapt a new process for designing or I’m advocating for something that the team members suggesting we do, it’s really important that I’ve learned how my partners communicate and I try to communicate on their terms. This

Is really, really important. One of the things we adapted and design a Capital One that was met with a bit of resistance, but it turned out to be incredibly effective, ’cause we had a lot of decks that are created by executives, and they’re very plain… We call them blue box decks, they just a lot of new boxes with columns and all these things, and it’s designed, we’re trying to design some nice stacks with the nice type faces and large photos. We’ve actually made it a habit to use the exact same presentation templates as our partners, because that’s how they’re used to seeing things presented, and that’s how they communicate, and that’s showing them that as a design organization, we wanna go meet them where they are and communicate on their terms… And this is really, really, really important for us as leaders to model to more… It sets them up for success in a part of relationships… This is tough, leading through autonomy and enable in that when I started leading teams or when I start to start managing people or becoming a people manager, I can come across the situation, especially just coming out of being more hands as pushing pencils doing design work and as I come into people management and doing that maybe a little less, or I’m meeting with people who are doing that, and we’re working on something and a desire…

Someone in one of my direct reports, my team members, goes off and design something and I have the way I think it should go in a mind, and they come back and it’s not the way I would do it. This is where being emotionally intelligent comes in really handy because it’s really important as leaders to understand that are our teams, the people we are leading may execute things differently than we would, but we can still get to the same outcome or pushing for… And so if I want to, if I focus my effort in trying to change the way they’re approaching it, to the way I would do it, I’m getting in the way, and so it’s really important to learn to lead through autonomy and enable that. And

One of the ways to do this is to model an autonomous working stuff. I try to do this as much as possible by just going and doing the things that I need to do and really only raising questions are coming back for support with my manager, what I need, direction or something where I need clarity, but I really try to show self-starting and driving the work and reaching out for questions and not waiting for the information to come to me, even go in and finding that information and then modeling that to my team so that they can see that. That’s a very productive way to work and it’s a lot more effective. Right. And then I need to get out of the way, right? This is the thing that I learned a lot as a leader. And it kinda goes back to what I was talking about, where part members are probably gonna do things different from us, or the way we would do it, and that’s okay. ’cause I just need to get out of the way, right? And I need to be focusing on getting other things out of the way.

So it’s like, How do I clear hurdles for them, how do I make sure I’ve got the right part or support for them, they’re off and running with an assignment or taking something on, I’m walking alongside them or behind it.

I’m not in their way, I often, from my team talk about it as a set of guard rails of the balance of direction, an autonomy… I say the model, this is the general direction I want you to head and within this space, you have the autonomy in this path to execute and drive the work using your skills, your capabilities in the way you think is best. And I’m gonna be on the same path to, but I’m gonna be out of your way that way at any point in time, you can turn to me for support, but I’m not in your way as you execute your work, this is crucially important because we don’t want to be the reason our teams don’t deliver or feel like they can’t execute the work the way that they think is best, the reason we’ve hired for that matter, this is important too, is really understanding our team, there’s lots of tools you can use for this, but just mapping the skills of our teams and what their experiences are, and what maybe some of the areas that are challenged.

So when I have that, it’s almost like if I were to have a… Depending on what you enjoy, a Pokemon card or a baseball card or something of my teams, I have profiles of each of my team members that I keep in the same deck, is my org chart, the Orca shows who reports to who, what’s happening, then I also have profiles for each person, that’s their skills, the project they’re working on, the skills they have, the skills they’re learning, and oftentimes, I actually ask them to give me just a quote that means a lot to them.

And I put that in there because it just gives me this well-rounded view of them, and then when my partners to have maybe a new product on join the team or a new engineer, we can help them understand the team’s experience levels, their skills, the things that challenge them in a good way, the things that become challenges for them, but I think maybe you grow into some more… And this allows me to really be able to enable them, wanna have this general idea and understanding of my team and new project work comes up, or I can possibly foresee something frustrating happening, also meet more effectively work on their behalf and is a more… I think a lot of teams do this, but I can’t understand how important this really is, is we need a vision, we need something to true back to hold ourselves accountable as leaders, but also to our teams.

We have visions for the work we do, but it’s important to have a vision for the team. Like, what’s our statement? What does our goal as a team? What do we wanna accomplish? Right. And then when I’m making decisions as a leader are of the decisions I’m making in support of that vision.

When the team members are talking about things or wanting to grow or take me work on, or challenging or find… We’re trying to work with a partner. We can always true back to saying like, Hey, is that in support of our vision, how do you see doing this moving us in that vision or in a hold it accountable in conversations where maybe they’re not showing up in the way they should, and I… As I remember, our vision is this, and the way you’re approaching this or the way you’re engaging right now, I don’t see that supporting that, and it gives us this great driver and thing to true back to in a lot of these conversations. This

Is important to… Team one-on-ones are very important, that’s clear, but it’s also important to check in with the team in general on a regular basis, just to hear what’s working, what’s not working, and where do they need to show up… I do this a woman once, I often ask about that, but this can also be as a team, when we have a monthly or a bi-weekly team meeting, this is a great opportunity to… If you’ve written okrs, you’ve got a team vision, or you have a set of principles or whatever you’ve established around your team, has guidance and frameworks for how the team is to engage in work, it’s great to revisit them in these settings, they’re like, Hey, does this still apply to us. Has it changed? What do we learn since we created these things or revise them last…

So it maybe something else he… Is that we were approaching this body were working for us to… Or how we’re approaching research, just constantly engaging them on what’s working and what’s not, and then asking them to like, Hey, I actually give… Ask my team, I too involved. And am I getting in your way? Let me know if I come across as micromanaging a certain situation, or am I trying to give you autonomy? Am I too far removed? There’s constant temperature tracks with the team really want helps them feel supported and engaged, but also helps them have ownership over the team because it really is their team. This is important too.

If I am gonna be, like I said before, there’s days I get up and I don’t have it right, what am I doing for myself? In my routine, my daily routines that are gonna help me show up better for my team and my partners, because leaders… But I continue to say partners through this, because leadership is as much about the relationships we have with our partners as it is about the teams that we manage, and

So I think establishing personal norms are incredibly important, and this is something I remind myself of quite a bit, this is something else that would show up on a sticky on my desk, it’s like five… My vibe, my Toho, I show up, for lack of better terms, energy set a tone for the space in which our team’s work, if I’m constantly up tight and all, I’m an incredibly anxious person, I’m also very high strong, and so I realized that in meetings that can just create anxiety for other people, if I’m just not mindful of how I carry myself, if I am… If I show up and I’m in a crap mood and I’m kinda just checked out or kind of argumentative and meetings or just kind of sarcastic… That sets a tone for the team. It’s important to realize that the… My Vibe sets a tone for the space which my team’s work and how I have relationships with partners.

One thing I’ve had to do, like I said, I’m in a lot of meetings a lot. If I’m not mindful of how I manage my time, I am not present for my teams and the wind to be when I first took over the credit solutions team, Capital One, because I was taking over the team and learning so much, it was meeting Palooza, 83 am five in the afternoon. No, Rick.

Maybe often lunches having to get to those so much, and so it’s a big organization. We have close to 50 different product partners, we have here something engineers, and that’s just on the product. Evolute a whole credit, Benton credit space that I had to learn about, spending so much time with people, it actually ended up causing a lot of my one-on-ones with my team members to get rescheduled and I saw… Was having an impact on them.

So I had to work to protect that time with them, and I’m doing like, Hey, if you reach out to me and I deny your meeting or say, I can’t make it, it’s usually because I have a one of my team that I need to protect. And the more I started protecting my one-on-one time with my team members, I saw a change in how they engage me and how they engaged, they felt more supported, so it’s really, really important that we manage our time well, so we can be present… I need to make sure that just because I got a meeting invite. Doesn’t mean I have to be in every meeting. So it’s really important. Either welcome.

This is my co-host, I’m just kidding. Or camera, Andrew, microphone. Sorry about that.

Okay, it’s also important that we invest in our own personal development, this is something that I have in the mistake of and thinking so much about investing in my team that I didn’t think about, What do I need to grow? Because if I’m not growing and I become gadag in my development, I limited in how I can invest enough. So it’s really, really important that I prioritize my own personal development and growth, and that as I look at what my personal development is, part of what influences that development and the things I choose to invest in for myself, or based on how I need to show up for my team, and some of the areas that I need to grow, to better support and lead that established healthy routines. A lot of you who… Some of you who may know us especially knows me that for the longest time when I worked in stressful environments and just would be at events, I would show up was a pretty self-medicated man child, I didn’t take care of myself, I allow myself to incredibly unhealthy.

Terribly eating habits, way too much bad drinking habits and staying out in a lot of different things, and I’m definitely not opposed to having fun, Cicely, but I started realizing that just the exhaustion and the physical toll that took on myself really kept me from showing up for my teams in the right way.

My anxiety was off the charts, my blood pressure was skyrocketing, I was constantly having headaches, not feeling well, it made me grumpy, it just made me tired. I couldn’t think straight. So personally, for me, we all have to approach this differently, but for me, I kinda had to get back together in a pretty big way, and

I lost it, I started exercising, lost to… Away, he started eating healthier. And what was crazy about that is an instantly, I noticed a difference in my energy. I had a lot more energy to give to my team, a lot more time to give to them, I felt better, I can think more clearly. And

So each of us have to figure out what this is for ourself, and I’m not here to tell you that you need to do any one thing or join a Peloton cult or become a vegan or whatever, you find what’s healthy for you that’s gonna help you feel like you can show up your best and establish your teams around that and protect that time, ’cause that’s definitely a way to invest in yourself, that’s gonna pay off for yourself and for your team. This, again, I will say this for Myself.

I know this is a pretty direct thing, and I don’t take this lightly, oftentimes, leadership can feel like therapy, and we deal with a lot… We deal with challenging partner relationships, we deal with designers who are coming to us with their struggles or they have struggles like right now, especially with the world kind of feeling like it’s on fire all the time, there’s just a lot going on and it’s really, really important in whatever way you think is right for you to find a way to process everything that’s happening in a productive manner, that goes back to establishing healthy routines. These are very tied together. Being able to talk to someone, being able to think through things, whether it’s a coach or a therapist, or a partner or whatever that is, just make sure that you have the time to process what’s happening in and around your world in a positive way. Lastly, I wanna talk a little bit about a Vice, I talked about how your vibe can impact a team, how

You show up, how you’re carrying yourself, our energy, how we respond to frustrating situations sends a message to our team. If I have a challenging partner, how I react to them, how I engage them, how I navigate those relationships, sends a message to the team, if they could snipe with me in a meeting and I choose to get snappy back if I send a passive aggressive email that they’re maybe copied on per my previous… Anything I do like that my team watches, they watch how I handle adversity, and they need to understand the right way to do that, and so I can tell them that all the time in the world. I can talk about it in meetings, how we are engaged partners, but they need to see it, they need to see it in action, and so how we respond to frustrating situations sends a message to our team, we…

I’m not saying when things are frustrating or challenging, we need to be out front like, Hey, everything’s fine, nothing’s wrong, but again, we’re the leader, it’s up to us to set the bid for the team, it’s up to us to be their cheerleader, being like… Yeah, you know what, I know this is hard. Hey, let’s work through this together. I’m not just your leader on your partner, how we respond to frustrating situation sends a message to our teams, how we process and care… Anxiety has an impact on your team. This is something I deal with on a daily basis. Like I said, I do carry a fortune, I just carry a lot of anxiety, I’m just kind of an anxious dude, and if I’m not mindful of that, I can bring that energy to a team and how I show up in my conversations with them, or how I show up if the kind of the sky is constantly falling, my team’s gonna just start to think that this is constantly falling in protein have a team anymore, because they don’t wanna go somewhere where the guys follow all the time. And so it’s important to think about how we process and carry anxiety and how that impacts our team, and it doesn’t mean we hide our insight, like I talked about, being vulnerable, transparent, ready.

There are times where it’s okay to say like, Hey, ANSI, have a lot of anxiety around this. Right, now, let’s talk about this.

And there’s productive ways to deal with that, but if we’re not careful how we deal with it, it’s gonna impact them, it’s gonna rub off on them, it’s gonna show them that maybe they should be anxious, are the words are not anxious enough, but something… Just so many mixed message and assumptions that can happen with not… Mantles, this is important. I talked about leadership is just as much about partners as it is about leading your teams, how do we talk about our partner sends a message to our team, if we get out of a challenging meetings, been going to slack and start like slam or partners or sliding them, our team sees that and then they think that’s okay to do as well.

And I get partners can be frustrating, we all experience that, but it’s really important that we set the example as leaders of navigating those challenging partnerships in a productive way, that we’re not talking down about our partners, it doesn’t mean we don’t address the issues, but it just means we don’t need to turn it into meat girls one or a favorite movies. Again, just a reminder, our vibe sets a tone for the space in which our teams work, how do you wanna show up, how do you want your team to show up, think about that and then think about how you might carry yourself to encourage that. Lastly.

This has been a lot. Right, there’s a lot going on right now. The world feels like it’s constantly bringing down… Aliens are coming. Who knows what’s next. Right, 2020 feels like it’s been a lot 10 years long, and our teams are bearing that bird, we’re bearing that burden, and it seems like a pretty sizeable ask to walk through a bunch of slides about how you can show up better for your team and some of the stuff is challenging and challenges me as I talk about it with you, but I want you to know that I’m sharing this because I’ve got you back, you’re in a Slack group in this conference with this great community that Russ and Shay and Brad and team have put together, you’ve got each other to support and build accountability partners with or get coaching or mentorship, lean on these things, right? Use the community you’re building by joining this events to build support for yourself as you lead teams, ’cause you’ve got this, you can do this, and you can be that leader that you need to be even amongst the challenging times… I wanna end with that. Interstate, thank you so much for your time.

Thank you, Russ. I always love collaborating with you and being a part of your events, and say, appreciate the opportunity today, I will be hopping into the Slack Hathi questions. Also, just find me on Twitter Iranian-Al questions, but look forward to the rest of the mint and chatting with you all morea.

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